Wow! That is a really deep thought there. Seriously. You made me think. I like when people make me think. I have come to the conclusion that I agree with you.
Being whole does not equal being perfect, and I believe the absence of all the other stuff would be a state of perfection.
Jenn
· 1 year ago
I am going to do some thinking out loud, too, and it's early and I haven't had my coffee yet so bear with me. ;)
I don't think that our wholeness is dependent upon all forms of conflict being removed. I also don't think that our wholeness is only something we will experience in a state of afterlife. I believe that part of the new convenant was a a reinstatement of wholeness. In John 16:5-16, Jesus is talking about the Holy Spirit coming to guide us in all truth. Jesus came to reconcile our relationship with God and in this verse he now refers to the Counselor coming but only being able to after he leaves. To make a word picture here, the Holy Spirit is like our bridge between the gap of our brokenness and His wholeness. Jesus has completed his work (for the time being) and sends the Spirit to be in us and work through us. I once heard this beautiful analogy that we still have the stains of our brokenness but we can put them out into the light and Jesus can shine through them like a stained glass window. In my experience, in times when being reflective of His love is really hard or in times of conflict, this is when being in tune to the "voice" (or however the Spirit reveals himself to you) of the Spirit can most reveal the essence of God through me.
Tracy Simmons
· 1 year ago
Jesus was perfectly whole while He walked this earth and His life certainly was not free from conflict, so I think I'd have to say that wholeness is walking in love in the midst of all the conflict. Good question, it made me think and ponder for a bit.
bluazul
· 1 year ago
It's a good question, although I have to disagree with equating the conflict with evil. In society today, we view conflict as a negative thing. However, it is often a very good thing. Viktor Frankl, in fact, stated that conflict is not only good, but NECESSARY for life. Without conflict, we are unable to find meaning in life, which I believe is core to being human. Christ guides us through conflict, helping us see that ultimate meaning is loving God and loving others.
I agree that conflict brings out the opportunity to be good, to show our good hearts. I would say that wholeness does not depend on our circumstances. It depends on us. Are we willing to be made whole, or are going to continually fragment ourselves and live from different parts of ourselves, ignoring other parts? As Jenn so aptly stated, Jesus is the quintessential example of being whole, and he was in the midst of major conflict AND evil. He had the ability and desire to live congruently in all areas of his life and with all parts of himself. Personally, I don't believe we can become fully whole in this life because we are not perfect and so cannot fully live congruently and fully integrate all parts of ourselves. However, we can constantly move closer and closer to that point.
Jonathan Brink
· 1 year ago
@ Mark - It has always been interesting to me that the Garden was not perfect, but good.
@ Jenn - The more I engage wholeness, the more I am wondering if part of it is my own redemption, or seeing my brokenness from His viewpoint. It doesn't define me. But I am now beginning to see how it has been used for my good.
@ Tracy, thanks Tracy.
@ Josh - I don't want to assume or even say that conflict equates evil, even though some conflict can include evil. Frankl himself lived in the midst of intense evil and was able to overcome it. I share your assessment that we can't become entirely whole in the life because of our broken bodies but we can as you say move closer.
amoslanka
· 1 year ago
wholeness in the context of real life is a condition of the inside of a heart giving that heart the ability to act purely in all situations. its not a condition of the environment around that heart allowing the heart to be pure by default.
Daniel
· 1 year ago
I have to disagree. I'm a broken person, period. Of course Jesus has my soul whole. I've been reconciled to God and that whole bit. But physically, mentally, emotionally, etc-ally, I'm still broken. Yea I cruse along feeling whole and loving life and others but all of the sudden something happens and I'm crushed again. My spirit is broken and I'm certainly not whole.
I do see your point though, My family and I have gone through times were others may have just quit but I think because of the measure of wholeness we have with Christ we were able to live in a state of wholeness even though the world was crashing down.
I guess it all depends on the definition of wholeness. If we define wholeness as a state where we continue to live as if we were whole even though we feel broken then sure wholeness is atainable now. But I would rather define wholeness as a state where we are free from the brokenness. Think new heavens/earth type freedom.
In conclusion, I don't know :) I guess I try to live as whole but then I'm always aware of the brokenness.
Amy
· 1 year ago
Jonathan, Great question! I think that wholeness is a state of being that resides whole in the midst of conflict. I believe our wholeness is found in living in Love when our circumstances are really difficult. I guess I say this with personal experience. When I was in the midst of incredible struggle awhile back, I drew into Father. He revealed Himself to me that was profound and amazing. I felt His love, and that was when I began to realize His true love for me. As a result, and ever since then, I've known for a certainty that surpasses everything that He loves me and will always love me...and I love Him and always will love Him, too. Even though many things were broken, and some still are broken, I know I am whole...just as I am. Why? Because I am wholly loved. Completely loved. Fully loved. I feel full. I am complete because I am in Him and He in me. This is the best way I can explain it.
All Comments
Being whole does not equal being perfect, and I believe the absence of all the other stuff would be a state of perfection.
I don't think that our wholeness is dependent upon all forms of conflict being removed. I also don't think that our wholeness is only something we will experience in a state of afterlife. I believe that part of the new convenant was a a reinstatement of wholeness. In John 16:5-16, Jesus is talking about the Holy Spirit coming to guide us in all truth. Jesus came to reconcile our relationship with God and in this verse he now refers to the Counselor coming but only being able to after he leaves. To make a word picture here, the Holy Spirit is like our bridge between the gap of our brokenness and His wholeness. Jesus has completed his work (for the time being) and sends the Spirit to be in us and work through us. I once heard this beautiful analogy that we still have the stains of our brokenness but we can put them out into the light and Jesus can shine through them like a stained glass window.
In my experience, in times when being reflective of His love is really hard or in times of conflict, this is when being in tune to the "voice" (or however the Spirit reveals himself to you) of the Spirit can most reveal the essence of God through me.
I agree that conflict brings out the opportunity to be good, to show our good hearts. I would say that wholeness does not depend on our circumstances. It depends on us. Are we willing to be made whole, or are going to continually fragment ourselves and live from different parts of ourselves, ignoring other parts? As Jenn so aptly stated, Jesus is the quintessential example of being whole, and he was in the midst of major conflict AND evil. He had the ability and desire to live congruently in all areas of his life and with all parts of himself. Personally, I don't believe we can become fully whole in this life because we are not perfect and so cannot fully live congruently and fully integrate all parts of ourselves. However, we can constantly move closer and closer to that point.
@ Jenn - The more I engage wholeness, the more I am wondering if part of it is my own redemption, or seeing my brokenness from His viewpoint. It doesn't define me. But I am now beginning to see how it has been used for my good.
@ Tracy, thanks Tracy.
@ Josh - I don't want to assume or even say that conflict equates evil, even though some conflict can include evil. Frankl himself lived in the midst of intense evil and was able to overcome it. I share your assessment that we can't become entirely whole in the life because of our broken bodies but we can as you say move closer.
I do see your point though, My family and I have gone through times were others may have just quit but I think because of the measure of wholeness we have with Christ we were able to live in a state of wholeness even though the world was crashing down.
I guess it all depends on the definition of wholeness. If we define wholeness as a state where we continue to live as if we were whole even though we feel broken then sure wholeness is atainable now. But I would rather define wholeness as a state where we are free from the brokenness. Think new heavens/earth type freedom.
In conclusion, I don't know :) I guess I try to live as whole but then I'm always aware of the brokenness.
Great question!
I think that wholeness is a state of being that resides whole in the midst of conflict. I believe our wholeness is found in living in Love when our circumstances are really difficult.
I guess I say this with personal experience. When I was in the midst of incredible struggle awhile back, I drew into Father. He revealed Himself to me that was profound and amazing. I felt His love, and that was when I began to realize His true love for me. As a result, and ever since then, I've known for a certainty that surpasses everything that He loves me and will always love me...and I love Him and always will love Him, too. Even though many things were broken, and some still are broken, I know I am whole...just as I am. Why? Because I am wholly loved. Completely loved. Fully loved. I feel full. I am complete because I am in Him and He in me.
This is the best way I can explain it.
Blessings,
Amy :)
http://amyiswalkinginthespirit.blogspot.com