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oh, and I love number 10. Reading his stuff helped push me into my agnostic years.
Seriously what's up with the soul patch and black glasses?
As a side note I cannot grow a soul patch, I have not shaved under my lip for months and the 5 hairs that are there are maybe 1/8 inch long. But when I get new glasses here in a few months I will be getting the awesome black glasses. They'll make me look smart!
Perhaps you should add, "I don't have a blog" to that list of reasons...
Rick - I can knit you a beanie, you'll fit in better
Uniformity in rebelling
It was me who posted that - under the wrong tag (my apologies). Proved wrong, as in, a Christian/Christ follower who wasn't necessarily emergent nor the opposing (according to the list).
What about someone who sees Joel Osteen for who he is, doesn't prefer MacArthur, nor Pagett, nor have anything to do with the southern baptists. Then what? What if I enjoy coffee, beer, cigarettes, mainstream music AND call myself a Christian but don't necessarily agree with Emergent theology? What if my parents aren't Christian and the only thing that brought me this far was the Holy Spirit?
I did think some of these were pretty comical (uber) but it's difficult to deny that there is some truth there and that's where the bight is.
I dunno.
For all of the time that we spend trying to get out of boxes, or attempting to prove ourselves that we're not in the box...
...Sometimes I'm not sure that we even want people to change our minds. Because then, what we would have to fight against? Who would be the enemy against our cause?
I just wondered if Jonathan wants to hear otherwise...
But Jonathan, my point is that not all people who disagree with emerging theology (for lack of a better word) are rigid poo heads that are unable to think for themselves. Essentially, it FELT like that's what the 50 list was saying.
Maybe I'm off.
as for how you feel about number 50 - like jonathan said, you have to own those feelings. I think Jonathan's intent with this list is pretty clear.
one thing about emergents, we generally don't get as put off with stereotypes, critique, etc as many people think - we actually don't take ourselves that seriously
Can I still be emergent?
Just kidding (mostly)...GREAT LIST!
The list is not all or nothing. And was purely for fun. (mostly)
Emergents are very much about relationship - but we want that relationship to be built on respect and authenticity - so while we'd love to have more friend to have conversations with, we don't want it at the expense of a loss of those things. In other words, if you don't want to join the conversation, we don't want you to and we don't look down on anyone who chooses not to participate because emergent was started by people who didn't have anywhere else to go - if we "fit" in your world, we'd still be there.
anyway, to those who find themselves getting tiffy about this list or anything like this, try not to take it so personally because it's really not about you :)
11, 28 and 29 work well, too.
Very true. However, wasn't that the intention? To poke a bit of fun at people that you don't feel accepted by?
Makeesha,
I'm not sure that I was taking Jonathan out of context (as he said, 'it was purely for fun. mostly.') But I certainly could be way off; as you know, it's difficult to get emotions across via the web. As for taking it personally, I'm not sure that I did, nor do, take the (nor any) 'movement' in that way. Maybe I'm not being clear... (did I come off as tiffy?)
And while I understand that 'emergent' began with a group of people who felt outside of the norm and thus are very community focused, isn't about more than that? I mean it's more than just feelings, it seems. It's seems more like a divergence of beliefs. The beliefs were different thus leaving people feeling on the outside. Right? It's more than just guiness and glasses. I could be way off, but the core is difference in beleifs, not just the appearance. ..right?
The point that I was trying to make is that, appearance (and action) wise a lot of people fit under the 50 (including myself). But theology is where things get a bit sticky.
I also mentioned theology in several of the points.
Could you be taking this a little too seriously? Maybe.
of course theology is where things can get "sticky"
I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at Raquel
my apologies
Very nice.
I have one problem.
How can you have a problem with Rob Bell's hair and not even mention Dan Kimball's hair???? Rumor has it he spends a solid hour on that sucker. If you've got Bell's hair, you've gotta get Kimball on there or else I'll have to doubt the validity of your list. Please address this oversight. :)
Thank You.
Coffee. Out. Nose.
Ouch.
*snort*
HAHAHAHAHA
Oh man I needed that. Thanks.
You asked about "emergent" people having different beliefs. I don't know if you could characterize the groups belief... if it's even a group that can be characterized. I think that's the point of the list. It is hard to argue with "emergent," because as soon as you do you are joining the conversation and then... well who is to say you don't belong? I go to a church that is pretty connected with Driscoll and Keller and is pretty reformed theologically, but I really like the process and attitude that seems to go along with being "emergent" more than I like the attitude towards knowledge and theology that I've experienced in other churches. So while my beliefs my not stray too far from my reformed roots, my openness to discussion and an understanding of my own intellectual limitiations makes me feel really refreshed and excited about emergent conversation.
anyway, point being, I think the list really just points out the difficulties in even defining what you are "not" if you aren't emergent. Like Jonathan said, I don't fit everthing on the list. I mean I personally hate sole patches and I think black glasses are really passé and I have no idea what people are talking about when they say "emergent theology." I do like guinness and cigars though : )
21. I like my Christianity strong and hot.
Ha!
This a question not to offend. Just for curious.
Some of the items were a bit "fanged" though. I mean if you're going to send a jab Chuck Colson's way (and I do think his critiques are a bit "off") at least give the guy the dignity of mentioning his name in the point.
I only say this because I know how isolated I feel when people attack me as "the/that pastor" rather than acknowledge my name.
Seriously though––I think *Emergent* can be and should be intergenerational.
Thanks for the laughs.
In fact that idea sounds like an old movie called Logan's Run. Once you reach a certain age they exterminate you. Ugh.
I would assume that even though my lifestyle reflects the concepts preached by ECs better than their own does most of the time, I am still on the outside of things because I have different conclusions theologically. I'm still considered too conservative, fundamental, evangelical, baptist what have you....
I have felt the same enthusiasm for the ideals that Sarah is expressing - but if she thinks she can adhere to any sort of reformed theology in the EC she's in for disappointment. That's all I was trying to say.
If you want to be part of the conversation, you can and you are welcome - as Tony Jones says, you're welcome in the conversation as long as you don't hold certain "distinctives" (like women not being allowed behind the pulpit for example) higher than the friendships.
I'm also not sure what to do with this:
"I would assume that even though my lifestyle reflects the concepts preached by ECs better than their own does most of the time"
?? really?? I'm not sure that reflects the humility for which you say you strive
iggy
I guess I am unaware of conservative emergents... And, while I deeply value friendships and relationships, I would say that there are some things that stand strong enough in my mind to be a dividing line; where I might say what separates us is greater than what unites us (women in leadership would not be an example of this).
My comment about my lifestyle was not humble at all - for which I apologize. I won't even try to re-explain what I meant, it was ungracious in it's tone, and I am sorry.
To Jeromy:
Fair enough. I hear you saying pretty much what Mak did. I suppose I made an unfair overarching statement, and I rescind.
# 52 - No I don't blog. I can't dance.
# 53 - God told me to vote for George Bush.
# 54 - God told me to set gays straight.
# 55 - I don't have a capuccino machine.
rob
theMOMvdH
I have black eyeglasses, but I'd look very funny if I tried to grow a soul patch, so I'll pass on that ;-)
The rest of this is very funny ... however ... I do think that the emerging church/conversation needs to dramatically expand it's beer horizons. Guiness is just too ... narrow and restrictive. There are so many, many good micro-brews out there to be tasted, and enjoyed.
Guiness, the Budweiser of stouts ... too industrial.
52. I didn't know that thingie is called a soul patch.
53. It's six weeks later and I'm just now getting here.
Just a fun fact - although I don't know when guiness was created, Luthers wife was know as a fantastic brewmaster and Spurgeon smoked until he was blue in the face.
If it fits that people aren't emergent for the top 50 reasons, are they then the reasons why you are?
~Amy :)
This was funny. This was REALLY funny, even though I've been a Christian for quite some time and I have no idea just who in the heck half of the people you're talking about really are.
I can see the problem with "All they want to do is love." Yeah. That's a very big problem in my book. Totally. Completely. You betcha! Yep. I'm sold. No Emergent church for me! No sirree! No way!
I think I'll take The Misfits...
http://thenoreaster.wordpress.com/2008/05/30/th...
Seriously. You should stop by and check it out. We're a rowdy bunch. All three of us. (There were two at the time the video was filmed.)
That's about it. But now I can scratch my itchy ears, watch porn in front of my christian friends, cuss in front of my christian friends, slug a couple of pints, drag on some of the good stuff, dig Jesus and Krishna, come out of the closet, take whatever road I want, kick didactics and pedagogy up the ass, make my own truth and validate it by my circle of friends, show people I really understand the dynamics of signifier, sign and the slippage in between. I can now look at the meta-narrative of any narrative and make the meaning mine. I can shout "The author is dead" from the rooftops, as well as "God is dead".
I'm free, free at last to imagine that I am not bound so tight that I cannot return to the tyranny of a God who is a rock. Who is exclusively personifies the Truth the way and the life. Who suffers no rivals. Who brings those who love Him and obey Him to Heaven and who sends those who hate Him, mock Him, disobey Him, ignore Him, to Hell.
Hey, and you don't even link to me on your blogroll!
Or, I believe it is TRUE that there Is no absolute TRUTH