I would suggest that you have just understood what "missing the mark" truly means (after all, it does come from an archery term ;) ) -- because God is at the center of the "target" and the "arrow" is our lives and when we "shoot", we are releasing and "spending" our life.
The point about "sin" is that it is the "call from the ref" that our aim is not spot on, as it were ... and the point about Jesus coming is to give us help -- both in recognizing the "target" (being like Christ) and in our "aim" (by the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit -- our "coach" as it were).
We are, each day and in each opportunity to live like Christ in all our encounters and relations, somewhat like an archer with "living arrows" -- and it is up to us to allow the Holy Spirit to help us "spend" our arrows by training us to identify on the proper target, strengthen our "arms" to the task, focus by shutting out the distractions of the "world", and waiting for just the right time to "let 'er fly."
...thanks for prompting this reflection. I may have to post this at "home."
Blessings.
Daniel
· 1 year ago
"I no longer want to miss out."
Neither do I. For so long it's been, "when I get over this sin, I can help, do, stuff." But I've come to realize that it should be, "When God calls me to help, do, stuff, I go." I like the sports analogy. Personally, I suck at sports, my hands and feet do not do what my brain and eyes tells them to do. I wonder if the real sin is not, like you said, "to miss the mark," but to wait for the recruiter to call you and ask you to join the team. If I wait for my pastor it will be after I learn to do x perfectly or once I learn y I can then do z. I'm tired of sitting on the sidelines waiting for someone to "give me a chance" when God is calling me towards an opportunity now.
I, right now have this incredible burden to go and do. But every road I go down is a brick wall or another disappointment (people and their lack of a "God sized vision"). ........ I'm not going to finish this thought. I am falling apart on the inside, my soul is screaming for an outlet. if anyone want's to lend a shoulder for me to spill on, please email dwbyrd _@_ gmail _._ com
jonathanbrink
· 1 year ago
Daniel, if you turn your thoughts around, how many pastors are banging their heads against the wall because they don't give you release to what you are called to do. They're trying to do their thing and missing out.
Daniel
· 1 year ago
That's a good point. Now that I think about it I can see that in my own pastor. He has a great God sized dream but He look s at the steps as battled WE have to win. He's got both my wife and I saying "hey, Let god use us to do this thing," but he for some reason is looking for that superstar 1st round pick ministry-ball guy that will come in and wow the world.
I don't think that guy exists but I know there are a bunch of not-stars, cannot even make it to the draft people with a variety of abilities ready and willing but relegated to the sidelines because they... whatever.
Don't get me wrong, he's a great pastor, but some times I wish he would just let God do His thing with the 5 loaves and 2 fishes we have at our church.
jonathanbrink
· 1 year ago
Daniel, what's sad is that I would bet your pastor is inherently frustrated inside. I think if you got to peak inside his brain you'd discover he is trying his best with what those ahead of him told him to do. And he doesn't understand why it doesn't work.
Rick McKinley is a great example of a pastor that gets it. His whole ministry plan is releasing people to where God is calling each person to participate. And then the body supports THAT.
Daniel
· 1 year ago
The sadder thing is I think he thinks that is want he is doing.
Bryan Riley
· 1 year ago
I like it. I had a similar revelation this year with regard to sin. I now see it as believing a lie, rather than the truth of God. Anytime I believe a lie I am sinning. It is like I am saying to God, I don't trust you in this area; I'm going to agree with the devil on this one.
George
· 1 year ago
I've been pondering this as well -- along with what really is faith as well as what really is sin.
Sin seems to me to be that which distracts me from God. Believing the lie, as Bryan points out. Depending on a pastor to appoint me to do what God has already appointed me to, as Daniel observes. Missing the mark, not so much because of my physical inability but because I took my eye off the target.
When I consume for the pleasure of it, when I freeze up because of my mistake, when I spend time judging someone's "worse" sin, even when I study beyond what I need to follow -- that's sin, because it's separating me from God.
Tracy Simmons
· 1 year ago
Jonathan, I love that definition: To miss out. Each of us could probably come up with dozens of "reasons" (i.e., excuses!) why we are "missing out." I like what you said, Bryan, about a lack of trust--so true!
Daniel, if you've not read "Leading with a Limp" yet (Dan Allender), you might really find that book useful to you at this point in your journey. That book was so used in my life to just get on with whatever God has set before me to do, regardless of my "limp!"
George, I'd love to hear more about why you think our sin separates us from God. I used to feel that way, but now I feel Jesus jumps into the sin pit with me when I chose to go there. He doesn't stand far away and wait for me to finish and repent before drawing near. For while we were yet sinners....
George
· 1 year ago
Tracy wrote: "I’d love to hear more about why you think our sin separates us from God."
Oh, personal experience and scripture.
When I am over-indulging in any sort of self-gratification -- food, toys, making money, spending money, asserting myself in traffic at the expense of others -- I tend to turn my back on God. I notice that I will remember to thank God before I eat, but rarely after -- especially if I've pigged out. At times like that, while He's not forsaken me, I've certainly forsaken Him in that moment.
Of course Christ came to me while I was a sinner. He rescued me from sin. But I find no biblical support for a belief that He is indifferent to me continuing in sin.
Jesus told the story of the prodigal son. Did the father go with the son, or did he wait to go to him only when he was coming back?
Jesus told the parable of the sower. The third group were those among the thorns -- those concerned with wealth. Were they blessed?
The book of Hebrews has various discussions of this as well. Remember, this is not about losing one's salvation; it's about estranging oneself from God.
Who can separate us from the love? No outside force at all. But I can separate me from Him -- He doesn't turn His back on me, but I all too often turn my back on Him.
jonathanbrink
· 1 year ago
George, I would add that God is never estranged from us. It is we who always walk away. And his heart breaks. The problem is always us.
George
· 1 year ago
JB -- Agreed wholeheartedly! "If we are faithless [i.e. acting as if we do not accept His sovereignty], He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself."
His heart breaks, and we miss out. Really, your idea that sin means to miss out is excellent. We walk away to self-indulge -- a vacation from Christ -- but we're the ones who miss out.
"The problem is always with us" -- not because He refused to abandon His holiness to accompany us in sin, but because "we ... walk away."
Tracy Simmons
· 1 year ago
Okay, that's a bit clearer! I think I would probably take it further than you do, even with that clarification. My view (from what I see in scripture) is that as a Christian, my sin does not separate me from God. It can certainly cause me to lose my enjoyment of God, my sense of joy, etc., but to say that it actually separates me from God? No, I cannot buy it, not since the cross. My life and our closeness comes from what He has done, and Him alone, not from my actions (or lack of actions).
His faithfulness and friendship toward me are not withdrawn (separation) from me when I sin, though I may very well lose all consciousness of His presence should I intentionally continue down sin's path. To lose the conscious presence of Him versus actually being separated from Him are two really different things, though, and for me the distinction is an important one.
Grace, Tracy
jonathanbrink
· 1 year ago
Tracy, the problem is fundamentally that the curse makes us think we're separated, drawing us into condemnation. This is what th cross revealed. That our sin does NOT separate us from God because of what we do. Love wins out because it is a response to who He is. Love is not conditional.
Tracy Simmons
· 1 year ago
Exactly my thoughts, Jonathan.
George
· 1 year ago
Hmmmm. So it seems from your final few comments that you believe you're really not missing out at all. It was just that "curse" that made you think you were. But in fact, you feel, that sin has not separated you from God, and "love wins" (yours, I guess, because it's a "response" to Him. Or perhaps you mean His love is a reflection of Who He is?). But either way, love trumps sin (and I now no longer understand what you mean by sin, unless it's a feeling that makes you vulnerable to the "curse" that makes you feel separate, even tho you're not).
Thus the Augustinian "Love God and do what you will" means for you that loving God has nothing to do with how you conduct yourself?
If so, in your understanding, what does love look like? What does faith look like?
One can make the case that sin only exists where there is a knowledge base that defines it as such: nakedness was not an embarrassment until Adam and Eve were so informed; covetousness was not seen as evil by Paul until he was taught so by the Mosaic Law. Now, post-Cross, with the new covenant, the Mosaic law is not applicable and so nothing can be seen as sin since nothing in the new covenant defines our acts as sin the way the Mosaic law did.
As I say, one can make that case, and I have a friend who does it very well, but it's not been fully compelling to me. I've been more convinced of -- and experienced in, altho I realize you might say I simply succumbed to the "curse" -- separation arising from self-indulgence at the expense of others. Seems to me that described Annanias & Saphira among others.
So I guess I'd most like to know how you'd answer: is this curse merely psychological, or is there any real justification for sin separating you (or anyone) from a close walk with God?
jonathanbrink
· 1 year ago
George, I'd like to answer your question but I'm not following you. Please restate your question. From what I can tell it looks like your making some broad assumptions.
All Comments
I would suggest that you have just understood what "missing the mark" truly means (after all, it does come from an archery term ;) ) -- because God is at the center of the "target" and the "arrow" is our lives and when we "shoot", we are releasing and "spending" our life.
The point about "sin" is that it is the "call from the ref" that our aim is not spot on, as it were ... and the point about Jesus coming is to give us help -- both in recognizing the "target" (being like Christ) and in our "aim" (by the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit -- our "coach" as it were).
We are, each day and in each opportunity to live like Christ in all our encounters and relations, somewhat like an archer with "living arrows" -- and it is up to us to allow the Holy Spirit to help us "spend" our arrows by training us to identify on the proper target, strengthen our "arms" to the task, focus by shutting out the distractions of the "world", and waiting for just the right time to "let 'er fly."
...thanks for prompting this reflection. I may have to post this at "home."
Blessings.
Neither do I.
For so long it's been, "when I get over this sin, I can help, do, stuff." But I've come to realize that it should be, "When God calls me to help, do, stuff, I go."
I like the sports analogy. Personally, I suck at sports, my hands and feet do not do what my brain and eyes tells them to do. I wonder if the real sin is not, like you said, "to miss the mark," but to wait for the recruiter to call you and ask you to join the team. If I wait for my pastor it will be after I learn to do x perfectly or once I learn y I can then do z.
I'm tired of sitting on the sidelines waiting for someone to "give me a chance" when God is calling me towards an opportunity now.
I, right now have this incredible burden to go and do. But every road I go down is a brick wall or another disappointment (people and their lack of a "God sized vision"). ........ I'm not going to finish this thought. I am falling apart on the inside, my soul is screaming for an outlet. if anyone want's to lend a shoulder for me to spill on, please email dwbyrd _@_ gmail _._ com
I don't think that guy exists but I know there are a bunch of not-stars, cannot even make it to the draft people with a variety of abilities ready and willing but relegated to the sidelines because they... whatever.
Don't get me wrong, he's a great pastor, but some times I wish he would just let God do His thing with the 5 loaves and 2 fishes we have at our church.
Rick McKinley is a great example of a pastor that gets it. His whole ministry plan is releasing people to where God is calling each person to participate. And then the body supports THAT.
Sin seems to me to be that which distracts me from God. Believing the lie, as Bryan points out. Depending on a pastor to appoint me to do what God has already appointed me to, as Daniel observes. Missing the mark, not so much because of my physical inability but because I took my eye off the target.
When I consume for the pleasure of it, when I freeze up because of my mistake, when I spend time judging someone's "worse" sin, even when I study beyond what I need to follow -- that's sin, because it's separating me from God.
Daniel, if you've not read "Leading with a Limp" yet (Dan Allender), you might really find that book useful to you at this point in your journey. That book was so used in my life to just get on with whatever God has set before me to do, regardless of my "limp!"
George, I'd love to hear more about why you think our sin separates us from God. I used to feel that way, but now I feel Jesus jumps into the sin pit with me when I chose to go there. He doesn't stand far away and wait for me to finish and repent before drawing near. For while we were yet sinners....
Oh, personal experience and scripture.
When I am over-indulging in any sort of self-gratification -- food, toys, making money, spending money, asserting myself in traffic at the expense of others -- I tend to turn my back on God. I notice that I will remember to thank God before I eat, but rarely after -- especially if I've pigged out. At times like that, while He's not forsaken me, I've certainly forsaken Him in that moment.
Of course Christ came to me while I was a sinner. He rescued me from sin. But I find no biblical support for a belief that He is indifferent to me continuing in sin.
Jesus told the story of the prodigal son. Did the father go with the son, or did he wait to go to him only when he was coming back?
Jesus told the parable of the sower. The third group were those among the thorns -- those concerned with wealth. Were they blessed?
The book of Hebrews has various discussions of this as well. Remember, this is not about losing one's salvation; it's about estranging oneself from God.
Who can separate us from the love? No outside force at all. But I can separate me from Him -- He doesn't turn His back on me, but I all too often turn my back on Him.
His heart breaks, and we miss out. Really, your idea that sin means to miss out is excellent. We walk away to self-indulge -- a vacation from Christ -- but we're the ones who miss out.
"The problem is always with us" -- not because He refused to abandon His holiness to accompany us in sin, but because "we ... walk away."
His faithfulness and friendship toward me are not withdrawn (separation) from me when I sin, though I may very well lose all consciousness of His presence should I intentionally continue down sin's path. To lose the conscious presence of Him versus actually being separated from Him are two really different things, though, and for me the distinction is an important one.
Grace,
Tracy
Thus the Augustinian "Love God and do what you will" means for you that loving God has nothing to do with how you conduct yourself?
If so, in your understanding, what does love look like? What does faith look like?
One can make the case that sin only exists where there is a knowledge base that defines it as such: nakedness was not an embarrassment until Adam and Eve were so informed; covetousness was not seen as evil by Paul until he was taught so by the Mosaic Law. Now, post-Cross, with the new covenant, the Mosaic law is not applicable and so nothing can be seen as sin since nothing in the new covenant defines our acts as sin the way the Mosaic law did.
As I say, one can make that case, and I have a friend who does it very well, but it's not been fully compelling to me. I've been more convinced of -- and experienced in, altho I realize you might say I simply succumbed to the "curse" -- separation arising from self-indulgence at the expense of others. Seems to me that described Annanias & Saphira among others.
So I guess I'd most like to know how you'd answer: is this curse merely psychological, or is there any real justification for sin separating you (or anyone) from a close walk with God?