Hi, Daniel, I'm Tracy. There. Now you know at least one other person that does :-).
My hubby and I both were "pastors" who walked away from "ministry" in a church building (we were "associate pastors," not the "senior" pastor, just to clarify). It's one of the best decisions we ever made, though also one of the most difficult. It's been 11 years now and I've never looked back.
Peace to you on your journey....
Jonathan Brink
· 1 year ago
Daniel, Tracy actually leads a Thrive group as well so maybe you have more in common than you might think.
Sam
· 1 year ago
Daniel: So do I. I am part of a small group in San Diego that is doing this. We did not sell our church, but came out of churches that are all wrapped up in buildings, properties and programs, and have only crumbs left for the community, especially the poor, widows and orphans.
We meet in the park or at a cafe in the (lower economic class) neighborhood. Soon we plan to meet once a month in the community center for a common meal (inviting people from the neighborhood) and prayer, or something like that.
If you're anywhere close to San Diego, Jonathan may share my e-mail address with you. Then again, maybe you're a pastor or somehow so tied in with your "church" that you think you don't have any options.
My opinion: I think that lots of churches are going to close, as they did in the Europe and the UK. God is calling some of us to begin again and create something new, which is actually something old. The churches that do not close will either serve congregations that continue to dwindle, or those churches will undergo radical change.
Scott
· 1 year ago
Wow. Thanks for sharing... all of you.
I am a pastor in the central valley area of California. I took this church 3 1/2 years ago. They talked about missional church but had a budget that only paid for salaries and building. I led them to sell our bigger building to relieve the debt to purchase a smaller facility out right so that we could put our money where our mouth and theology is. So, we have smaller staff and smaller facility so that we could put more money in ministry and mission. However, we still have more steps to make. I wish we had sold and never bought again!
Jenn
· 1 year ago
Oh how I wish it was true! This was beautifully written and got me all excited about the possibilities of more Christians moving their mindset outside of the building and the programs and focussing on Jesus and how he lived. I'm with Daniel. I. Want. This. Too. My heart yearns for a close community to chew on the tough questions with, love, argue with, reconcile with, etc, etc.
Jonathan Brink
· 1 year ago
Scott, I wish you well as you navigate what it means to engage a missional mindset. Don't ever give up. Your journey will inspire many around you to make the same step.
Pops
· 1 year ago
You Sod! I was getting so excited reading that, thinking Yeah man, someone has got it right at last! YIPPEE! I'm gonna track this bloke down and ask so many questions and maybe at last talk to someone who can help with answers and practical guidelines from experience, blah blah bah
Disclaimer!
REAL bummer Jonathan!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My heart is sore. Not just at the deflation of my hope, but as the reality hits home - there is no one who has done this!
Jonathan Brink
· 1 year ago
Pops,
I wrote that piece specifically because I had never heard of anyone doing that, yet my own heart wished for it to be true. Maybe it will inspire a few people to think.
Daniel
· 1 year ago
Thanks Tracy, but I mean people here, in Central Illinois. (Johnathan, I'm working on my story for you still, It's just hard to write your story when your story keeps happening making you look at pieces differently. Plus my time is stretched sinfully thin ):
Scott, where in the Central Valley? I grew up in Porterville.
Sam, Thankfully I'm not a pastor :) I was on my way though 1.5 years at Liberty (Distance Learning) I was going to go all the way, MDiv then a Sr pastor position, awesome things like that. God stopped me.
Daniel, I hear you :). I'm so glad God stopped you!
Brian, that's so encouraging to read about what you're up to. I'll be following your story. I look forward to watching it all play out.
Don Davis
· 1 year ago
Yes it is happening! I know of two pastors personally who have sold their church buildings and moved out to do church life where they live. Plus there are thousands of professional clergy who have walked away from the business of churchanity to make disciples.
No, it does not make life easier, or doing church easier - but it certainly is real and more simple.
We can rejoice! Viva La Revolution!
Jonathan Brink
· 1 year ago
Nice Don. thanks for stopping in.
Pastor E
· 11 months ago
This is awesome. I have been pastoring for only five years and did not understand why God did things that He did in my life and with the Church. We have more 'members' outside around the world on mission fields and more faithful supporters of the mission field who sow into our church than we have weekly 'members'. We are truly a church without boundaries. We lost members when we were on a drive to get a bigger building and God had us to use the funds to purchase two community mission houses for missionaries. We also give temporary refuge for those in need.
Never made it to the mega church mentality and theme of adding numbers. We are Church of Philadelphia in Durham, NC and we are standing (almost alone in this area) as a church on a mission to fulfill Christ's commission. We know that God is with us. A am excited about the move to discipleship... again. First century passion!!!
We never bought the building. Hallelujah!!! Almost all of our money received, outside of paying for a 1200 sq ft space, goes into mission support, sending people to the mission field and getting into the local community in shared projects.
This is so encouraging. God continue to bless you Pastor.
Saul
· 11 months ago
Gordon Cosby has stated that despite the Church's being almost 55 years old, they have never had more than 150 members. That is in part because of what it takes to become a member, and also intentional --- once it got too big, they divided and would break off like cells and replant in the area. The philosophy of this church is found in this PDF, which is very informative: http://www.pottershousedc.org/files/journey.pdf A large size church, Cosby insists, is actually a less effective ministry, at least outwards towards the community --- megachurches (my interpretation) tend to feed themselves with bowling alleys, children's schools, Sunday school curriculum, etc. but these are people who wish to go to church, not be church. A large church contributes to "depersonalization" and "institutionalism", leading towards a lesseningi commitment. An interesting perspective in an age when you have consultants who are paid by churches as far as how they can increase their numbers, get more pews filled, and fill their coffers, in order to be considered "blessed" and "successful."
Brett Marko
· 11 months ago
I have to agree with Saul. I found the Lord in a megachurch but I did experience this depersonalization that he talks about. I left the church and came back 3 months later and people had not realized that I had left at all. They just thought they hadn't seen me for a while.
I do get concerned about "driven" churches that are focused more on numbers of people that how people are actually growing in Christ.
Don Albers
· 6 months ago
As to the method of the article being a satire...isn't this what we do all the time as visionary leaders - we imagine a different scenario that answers our problems and disilusionment with the status quo. Didn't that greeat church leader from early times do this with His church in 70 AD - He completely dismantled his church. It seems that he gave people about 30 some years to get used to the idea that a change had been implimented - then one day they went to go to the Temple and it was gone. Some people are still complaining about that bad leadership decision and have yet to embrace this new thing called The Way. I admit, I am dissilusioned with many aspects of church and long for change. I dream about things like what this story presents. I knew it was not a real story when it claimed only %30 fallout. Don
Jonathan Brink
· 6 months ago
Ouch Don. Is the fallout that bad?
Don Albers
· 6 months ago
Hi Jonathan Is the fallout that bad? As in a higher % or as in "So what if we have a little fallout?" We have just had some very spirited discussions this week related to a similar idea. We are a small church of about 120. Due to the mass exodus brought on by summer holidays and weekend camping trips we presented an idea to shift from Sunday services to a mid week service just for the summer. Our goal was to maintain closer relationships during the summer and engage with the ryhtms of the culture. Our plan was to encourage people to invite others over or to go to the beach and spend Sundays engaging with neighbors who would not come to church. We set up discussion groups thorughout the week for people to engage and dialog around the idea. We did not realize how deeply people felt about messing with their Sunday Church service and rythms of sabbath rest. We soon found out. 3/4 of the people were strongly opposed to the idea. Had we been committed to follow through - I think the fall out would have been over 50%. In trembling fear of mass rejection we have aborted these plans. But...we made a great discovery. We could see peoples passions and values clearly demonstrated in their dramatic responses. This gives me hope for future change. We as pastors may have wrestled long and deep with our discontent. We may be ready for change but our people can't and won't change until we help them establish new higher values. God brought an image to my mind of a deeply plowed filed. Plowing is a violent act. God used this issue to plow us. He exposed roots so they could die. He prepared the soil for new seed. We (leaders) were reminded to love the people on the journey. As we regroup I think we are one step closer to change. Fallout so far is 0%, but our neighbors will have to wait. Is fallout that bad?
Don
Jonathan Brink
· 6 months ago
My wonder was your first version. Thanks for your willingness to shift.
All Comments
I. Want. This.
But I know zero others that do...
My hubby and I both were "pastors" who walked away from "ministry" in a church building (we were "associate pastors," not the "senior" pastor, just to clarify). It's one of the best decisions we ever made, though also one of the most difficult. It's been 11 years now and I've never looked back.
Peace to you on your journey....
We meet in the park or at a cafe in the (lower economic class) neighborhood. Soon we plan to meet once a month in the community center for a common meal (inviting people from the neighborhood) and prayer, or something like that.
If you're anywhere close to San Diego, Jonathan may share my e-mail address with you. Then again, maybe you're a pastor or somehow so tied in with your "church" that you think you don't have any options.
My opinion: I think that lots of churches are going to close, as they did in the Europe and the UK. God is calling some of us to begin again and create something new, which is actually something old. The churches that do not close will either serve congregations that continue to dwindle, or those churches will undergo radical change.
I am a pastor in the central valley area of California. I took this church 3 1/2 years ago. They talked about missional church but had a budget that only paid for salaries and building. I led them to sell our bigger building to relieve the debt to purchase a smaller facility out right so that we could put our money where our mouth and theology is. So, we have smaller staff and smaller facility so that we could put more money in ministry and mission. However, we still have more steps to make. I wish we had sold and never bought again!
I'm with Daniel. I. Want. This. Too. My heart yearns for a close community to chew on the tough questions with, love, argue with, reconcile with, etc, etc.
Disclaimer!
REAL bummer Jonathan!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My heart is sore. Not just at the deflation of my hope, but as the reality hits home - there is no one who has done this!
I wrote that piece specifically because I had never heard of anyone doing that, yet my own heart wished for it to be true. Maybe it will inspire a few people to think.
Scott, where in the Central Valley? I grew up in Porterville.
Sam, Thankfully I'm not a pastor :) I was on my way though 1.5 years at Liberty (Distance Learning) I was going to go all the way, MDiv then a Sr pastor position, awesome things like that. God stopped me.
For now it seems, Roads go ever on
Be the peace ...
Brian
Brian, that's so encouraging to read about what you're up to. I'll be following your story. I look forward to watching it all play out.
I know of two pastors personally who have sold their church buildings and moved out to do church life where they live. Plus there are thousands of professional clergy who have walked away from the business of churchanity to make disciples.
No, it does not make life easier, or doing church easier - but it certainly is real and more simple.
We can rejoice! Viva La Revolution!
Never made it to the mega church mentality and theme of adding numbers. We are Church of Philadelphia in Durham, NC and we are standing (almost alone in this area) as a church on a mission to fulfill Christ's commission. We know that God is with us. A am excited about the move to discipleship... again. First century passion!!!
We never bought the building. Hallelujah!!! Almost all of our money received, outside of paying for a 1200 sq ft space, goes into mission support, sending people to the mission field and getting into the local community in shared projects.
This is so encouraging. God continue to bless you Pastor.
A large size church, Cosby insists, is actually a less effective ministry, at least outwards towards the community --- megachurches (my interpretation) tend to feed themselves with bowling alleys, children's schools, Sunday school curriculum, etc. but these are people who wish to go to church, not be church. A large church contributes to "depersonalization" and "institutionalism", leading towards a lesseningi commitment. An interesting perspective in an age when you have consultants who are paid by churches as far as how they can increase their numbers, get more pews filled, and fill their coffers, in order to be considered "blessed" and "successful."
I do get concerned about "driven" churches that are focused more on numbers of people that how people are actually growing in Christ.
Didn't that greeat church leader from early times do this with His church in 70 AD - He completely dismantled his church. It seems that he gave people about 30 some years to get used to the idea that a change had been implimented - then one day they went to go to the Temple and it was gone. Some people are still complaining about that bad leadership decision and have yet to embrace this new thing called The Way.
I admit, I am dissilusioned with many aspects of church and long for change.
I dream about things like what this story presents. I knew it was not a real story when it claimed only %30 fallout.
Don
Is the fallout that bad? As in a higher % or as in "So what if we have a little fallout?"
We have just had some very spirited discussions this week related to a similar idea. We are a small church of about 120. Due to the mass exodus brought on by summer holidays and weekend camping trips we presented an idea to shift from Sunday services to a mid week service just for the summer. Our goal was to maintain closer relationships during the summer and engage with the ryhtms of the culture. Our plan was to encourage people to invite others over or to go to the beach and spend Sundays engaging with neighbors who would not come to church. We set up discussion groups thorughout the week for people to engage and dialog around the idea. We did not realize how deeply people felt about messing with their Sunday Church service and rythms of sabbath rest. We soon found out. 3/4 of the people were strongly opposed to the idea. Had we been committed to follow through - I think the fall out would have been over 50%. In trembling fear of mass rejection we have aborted these plans.
But...we made a great discovery. We could see peoples passions and values clearly demonstrated in their dramatic responses. This gives me hope for future change. We as pastors may have wrestled long and deep with our discontent. We may be ready for change but our people can't and won't change until we help them establish new higher values. God brought an image to my mind of a deeply plowed filed. Plowing is a violent act. God used this issue to plow us. He exposed roots so they could die. He prepared the soil for new seed. We (leaders) were reminded to love the people on the journey. As we regroup I think we are one step closer to change. Fallout so far is 0%, but our neighbors will have to wait.
Is fallout that bad?
Don